Why Percy Jackson Fanfiction Sucks
by LoverBoi2000
Summary: Woohoo provocative title yay. I hope that drew y'all in, cause this is a full-on rant about my issues with this fandom. May become multiple rants, who knows. I am, after all, a man of the people. I do what they will (if they review, if they don't I just crap-post like this). Hope you enjoy, but I probably just made too many enemies because of this rant... #sorrynotsorry
1. Essay 1

**Welcome, my friends, to the hell-hole that is my head. This is an essay that came to the forefront of my mind at the end of one of my classes, where I was perusing fanfiction for a good, interesting story to read. And I got close to zip. There are some amazing fanfiction stories out there, for which I created a community called _Well Done (Top-Tier Percy Jackson Fanfics)_. Check out what I think makes for good fanfiction and please disagree with me! The following essay is _meant_ to be provocative. I would love some amazing conversations, either through PMing or reviews, to come out of this essay, and any others I may end up writing. So, without further ado, my unfiltered mind:**

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"_And during the seven days that Eurymedon, after his arrival, stayed there with his sixty ships, the Corcyraeans continued slaughtering such of their fellow-citizens as they considered to be their personal enemies. The charge they brought was of conspiring to overthrow the democracy, but some were in fact put to death merely to satisfy private enmity, and others, because money was owing to them, were slain by those who had borrowed it. Death in every form ensued, and whatever horrors are wont to be perpetrated at such times all happened then—aye, and even worse. For father slew son, men were dragged from the temples and slain near them, and some were even walled up in the temple of Dionysus and perished there."_ (Thucydides, 3.81)

I've read a lot of fanfiction. Mostly _Percy Jackson_, a good amount of _A Song of Ice and Fire_/_Game of Thrones_. In that time, I've matured. I think the first fanfiction I ever read was a PJO "vampire diaries" fanfiction, the next was… I think some sort of overdramatic Percabeth. I loved both for ages until I recently went back and re-read them. Boy oh boy, I was an idiot middle schooler. They were poorly written, with a convoluted plot and one-dimensional characters. Everyone was mopy for no reason and every villain was automatically the worst person in the world. I mean why does Annabeth always have a terribly abusive boyfriend when she isn't dating Percy? Can't the guy just be, I dunno, decent?

Anyways.

Why did I have you read one of the most important passages in Western thought? (If you didn't read the quote from Thukydides, go back and read it now. It's important. Like, really important.) Because, although I once loved "what if PJO was vampire diaries?" or "what if PJO was really a cheesy chick-flick you buy while depressed?" I have matured. I've read a lot of non-fanfiction-fiction, a lot of nonfiction history and journalism since my reading (and then writing) my first fanfic. Most importantly, I dove head-first into the Classics; the Classical authors Uncle Rick supposedly based his stories on. Sophocles, Thukydides, Homer, Hesiod, Virgil. Many of you have probably read their stories too. If you have, you will have immediately noted the distinction between Uncle Rick and these ancient authors.

Whereas Uncle Rick portrays his gods as nothing more than all-powerful, immortal humans, the ancient authors did not. Their gods were humanoid, yes, and subject to many of the worst vices humanity is subject to. They were extremely prideful and vengeful:

"Tell me, O Muse, the cause; wherein thwarted in will or wherefore angered, did the Queen of heaven drive a man, of goodness so wondrous, to traverse so many perils, to face so many toils. Can heavenly spirits cherish resentment so dire?" (Virgil, _Aeneid_ I.8-11).

But they were not so for reasons that more base creatures (humans) are. Their anger is not without cause. The gods, the ancients understood, were _gods_. They are not mortal nor are they subject to mortal justice. In most instances, it is Zeus — or Prometheus — who is the bringer of Justice: "Law, the king of all, / of mortals and immortals, / guides them as it justifies the utmost violence / with a sovereign hand" (Pindar, _Fragments_). Justice, according to Pindar, is the daughter of Zeus, whom he kept at his side at all times. Therefore, if Zeus is the dispenser of Justice, how can he be subject to it? This explains the anger Hera and Athena felt at Paris' judgment. No mortal can judge the gods, and most definitely not negatively.

The gods are not cruel because they are bad, but because they are above humans. What humans view as cruel is to the gods justice. Humans must stay in their place, as Aristophanes' story in Plato's _Symposium _shows. Aristophanes supposed, perhaps humorously, that humans were once two humans combined in a great big ball of flesh that would roll instead of run. There were, then, three genders: male-male, female-female, and male-female (hermaphrodite). "They were of surprising strength and vigour, and so lofty in their notions that they even conspired against the gods" (Plato, _Symposium _190C). In response, the gods cut these spherical humans in half and rearranged their anatomy before allowing them to go out into the world once more. If they threatened Olympus again, Zeus warned that he would once more cut humans in half.

Okay, so Zeus dispensed justice and jealously guarded his power. What does this mean for Fanfiction? Well, Zeus' dispense of justice in Aristophanes' speech, and in _the Iliad_, and in _the Odyssey_, and in _the Aeneid_, and in Pindar — it is all part of a broader _pre-Platonic _tradition warning humans to, essentially, stay in their own lanes. Gods are gods, and humans are humans. If humans try to reach too high, obtain too much, the gods will cut them down without second thought. This is even shown in non-fiction works, such as Herodotus and Thukydides. Herodotus' main proem, at the beginning of the first book, is that all that is great can fall and all that is small can rise, depending on the ambitions of men. Xerxes and Darius wanted Europe and Scythia, respectively, and lost everything for it, for one example. I will not bore you with too many examples. The basics of what I am trying to say is that in the pre-Platonic tradition which Uncle Rick claims to place his story into _heroes do not survive._

Wait, what? you might be asking yourself now. This goes against everything we have ever learned about the archetypal heroes journey or seen in any major movie. Most heroes win, and if they die they die when it is the right time for them to die (i.e. Tony Stark).

But the ancient Greeks were different. Think about it. Why is Percy named after Perseus? Because he was the only hero who had a happy ending. Though even Perseus gets killed, by the son of a man he killed. Unlike our current belief that creation is so great and living is wonderful and happy and yay! the ancient Greeks believed that life _fucking_ sucked. To bring up Herodotus again:

"I was thinking," Xerxes replied… "how pitifully short human life is…"

"Yet," said Artabanus, "we suffer sadder things in life even than that. Short as it is, there is not a man in the world, either here or elsewhere, who is happy enough not to wish — not once only but again and again — to be dead rather than alive." (Herodotus, 7.46).

Okay, okay, now you're either very mad or have left — please, please tell us what you want to actually say instead of bragging that you know some classics, you all are probably saying. I get it, but I had to prove some things with examples first. So, here's my argument:

PLEASE START WRITING MATURE FANFICTIONS THANK YOU VERY MUCH

And by mature, I do not mean go look up a synonym for "said" and put that in your story or give us a poetic description of a dress. No, what I mean is let us all write fanfictions that deal with this unacknowledged portion of Percy Jackson. We all dance around this topic of the tragic hero, even Uncle Rick. For how long was Percy built up to be the main hero in the first five books? A long-ass time. And then Luke is actually the hero, and he sacrifices himself to save the world. Now, obviously, Percy cannot die because it's a young adult novel and that's a big _no-no_. So Uncle Rick takes this idea from the ancient authors that he really likes — that humans live short and nasty lives (yes, Hobbes stole this from the pre-Platonics) — and twists it on its head so that Percy can survive.

Am I especially upset by this? No, not really. I love Percy and don't really want to see him die, but then again I love Robb and Ned and Dany and they all get snuffed.

Yes, Jason dies.

Moving on.

(But really, I mean, c'mon! Jason is far from the most loved character, his arc was done, and there was no use for him other than Uncle Rick using him to pretend he was a real author now.)

I cannot entirely get upset with Uncle Rick for writing a children's book. Really, I can't. Sometimes stories have to have happy endings. What I can, and am, upset about is the fact that the children Uncle Rick wrote _the Lightning Thief_ for are no longer children. We grew up. So why haven't our fanfictions? I have a few reasons.

**First reason:** most of us who grew up and still wanted to write decided that they had better uses of their time than fanfiction. I know that right now I should be writing an essay or reading research papers, not screaming about the sorry state of PJO fanfiction. So, yeah, most of us moved on. But not all of us. Which brings me to my second reason.

**Second reason:** those of us who are older and still writing are left writing for a younger audience. We are stuck in the same trap Uncle Rick is — as much as we wish to write something older or more mature, the audience we are writing to is, more or less, middle schoolers. But this is not a valid reason, for it assumes that middle schoolers can't grasp difficult concepts. They can, and many of them enjoy it and might become better for reading them.

**So, on to the most damning, probably too elitist reason:** most fanfiction writers either do not care for more meaningful fanfictions (i.e. just feeding plot to us) or cannot write more meaningful fanfictions. The latter of these two reasons is not necessarily a true critique, in that I don't find it uncurably bad. I was a very shitty fanfiction writer once. Still am, actually. But some effort would be nice.

I get it — it's fanfiction, why should I be clamoring for Nobel-prize winning literature on this site? And I'm not, I would just like to see some effort. Some effort at symbols less obvert than a necklace, some meaning less general than "high school sucks," some character dimensions other than "do they love me?", some plot development greater than acquire MacGuffin X, some allusions to the whole tradition of Camp Half-Blood more than the mythology, some attempts to place PJO into works of higher quality than _Vampire Diaries_.

Is this an easy task? No, of course not. Writing complex characters and plots is not an easy task to accomplish. Foreshadowing, adding symbols, creating coherency in a serially published story is even moreso. But it is far from impossible. This fandom has great, great stories (check out my community, Well-Done). But by the gods, it could be so much better. This isn't just for my viewing pleasure, it is also for your own development as a writer. Push yourself, and you may find just how good of a writer you really are.

Time to go take a midterm that I didn't study for in favor of ranting about this.

P.S. Just because I spent most of the first half of this essay ranting about _symphora_ and divine justice in ancient Greek philosophy does not mean that this is the only mature theme that can be displayed in fanfiction. Just an example.

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**Remember — this was meant to be provocative. A conversation starter. So let's get this conversation started! Additionally, if there is anything else in fanfiction you would be interested to see me write about, let me know. I'd love to start multiple conversations on many different topics. And if you want me to review (and possibly beta) your own fanfics, let me know. I would be more than happy to. There's nothing I love more than helping people become better writers. It's my favorite part about reviews, because they can really challenge what you think about your own writing. Anyways, I hope you all got something out of this essay.**

**Striving to provide Southern Hospitality the world over,**

**LoverBoi (yes, I'm a guy)**


	2. Responses 1

**Some of these reviews were just too good to not get the light of day. And a response from me :)**

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**Chapion-of-apollo**

_i was checking out your fanfics and i have to say, I don't think we're bad authors, your writing is just different to ours. Our writing can be one dimensional, yes, but we learn from our mistakes. Im going to Basic training for the marines soon and im passinate about it and wanted to combine it with something i was obsessed with in my childhood. It's a decent story so far, but you cant be looking for professonal writing from amateurs. Give the community time to grow and learn as writers come into theit element. Let them write poetry depicting annabeth's dress at prom. It'll help spice up their vocabulary, making their later writing better. Not everyone is a naturally talented writer, it's one of those hobbies that take time to develop._

First off, I'm not going to accept your division between a "we" and a "you" (where the "we" refers to "y'all" and the "you" refers to me). This was not written from the perspective of someone critiquing everyone but me for being a shitty writer. I am more than included in the category of shitty writer. I, too, learn from my many, many mistakes. Starting out with overly descriptive pieces is a good thing. What I am arguing for is a next step.

Which may or may not be professional writing, but encouraging people to write outside of their comfort zone will help them get closer to their best writing. Additionally, I know I agreed that we can't expect great writing all the time from fanfiction, but why shouldn't we?

I mean seriously, we're a _community_. Why don't we help each other get better at writing more?

Finally, thank you for your service. And good idea to write about Basic training! As Hemingway once said: start by writing the truest sentence you can.

_Sometimes when I was starting a new story and I could not get it going, I would sit in front of the fire and squeeze the peel of the little oranges into the edge of the flame and watch the sputter of blue that they made. I would stand and look out over the roofs of Paris and think, "Do not worry. You have always written before and you will write now. All you have to do is write one true sentence. Write the truest sentence that you know." So finally I would write one true sentence, and then go on from there. It was easy then because there was always one true sentence that I knew or had seen or had heard someone say. If I started to write elaborately, or like someone introducing or presenting something, I found that I could cut that scrollwork or ornament out and throw it away and start with the first true simple declarative sentence I had written. _(Hemingway, _A Moveable Feast_)

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**LastRonin**

_Well, I can honestly say several valid points are made. I won't pretend like you're blowing smoke up our butts and ranting to a wall. Much of what you say is fair and justified, but you also answer many of your own questions. As such, I'm not certain as to how much further input I can bring, but I'll certainly give it a shot._

_It would appear I fall into the very same category many other writers are lumped in with regards to your statement, in that we write on Fan Fiction without reaching the peak of our own abilities. After all, just take my only work on this site so far. From this point on, I have a precedent set as a smut writer, even though I'm capable of much more. Hell, I was a published writer before I got out of highschool, yet here I am._

_The question I think you have yet to ask, despite being one that is most important, is this: why do people write the stories they do? Once people answer this question, I think it becomes clearer as to why the quality of their work isn't the greatest. Of course, my own experience may skew my perspectives, so perhaps it is best for me not to generalize. But in my experience, Fan Fiction is the answer to the "what if" questions asked by the readers of a given story. "What if Percy was a child of Chaos?What if Percy was fated to be with Artemis?What if Percy was a cruel person and given extraordinary powers?What if Percy was betrayed by everyone he knew and loved?"_

_These questions are asked, even if subconsciously. Those that believe they have answers and wish to share their perspective find themselves on here as the writers. Those that want the answer, yet wish to see another's perspective are the readers. I won't pretend like all works on here are beautiful pieces of literature, but as you said, this is Fan Fiction, they aren't going to be. No one gets paid to do this, and most writers have a life outside of their works here. They have a living to make, and Fan Fiction won't cover the costs._

_Trust me, I've read some stories that leave me asking "what the hell did I just read?" To a further degree, I understand the curiosity that drives you over the knife's edge to keep reading a work that leaves you mentally scarred from either atrocious writing or atrocious concepts. However, an unpopular answer I have for you that I had to instill in myself is this: you don't have to read them. When it comes down to it, the only thing a writer on this platform has is the support of their following. If their work is poor, their following will reflect that. If their work is great, the same can be said of their following. With little support, the poor writers will either give up on their work and let it flutter to the depths of Tartarus, or they will continue their work because, as my dad always says, they have a story they need to tell whether or not anyone is listening._

_As you pointed out, many of us aren't phenomenal writers. I won't pretend to be. Even further, I won't pretend to declare my reasons for writing are noble and exist as a means to further delve into the philosophical aspects of the Greek mythological world. No. Several situations had to come together for me to start writing the things I do._

_As both a writer and a reader, I understand every point you make. However, when it comes down to it, their is one key factor that, despite you acknowledging, you haven't quite concretely grasped. This is Fan Fiction. Everything you read, you read for free. No one forces you to read what you do. The only thing you're offering is your time, and often not much of it. I don't intend this as an attack, but an observation. Writers all have their own reasons for writing, just as readers have their reasons for reading. Depnding on those reasons, the quality of their works will fluctuate._

_Again, I won't ignore that there are authors out there that don't belong on Fan Fiction. Either because this platform is not enough for their capabilities or because the input they have exists solely to drag the fandom down. I wish I could unsee many of the stories I read, but as you pointed out, few, if any, of us came onto this site with the intention of being a Shakespearean level author._

_We all have stories to tell and have our own reasons for telling them. More often than not, the stories we wish to tell aren't complex, much less planned out completely. However, these very same concepts can be applied to paid authors as well. If anything, I would argue that Fan Fiction isn't the platform to criticize, but writing as a whole. To make these declarations against, or for (depending on your perspective), Fan Fiction writers is like complaining that the food at a McDonald's isn't high quality or could be improved greatly. While your point may be true, the expectation set seems unnecessary. After all, if there is no baseline, then how can we measure what high quality writing is._

_Let me make this clear, many, if not most, stories on Fan Fiction aren't of marketable quality or pieces of literature to b_

To start my response, I first want to say how happy I am you read this. I love your story, and I think it's the best of the "Percy-has-a-harem-now" trope. By far. Also, if there was more that got cut off from your review, I'd love to hear the rest. This was a really well done response.

To the basics of your argument, if I can properly sum it up: I shouldn't expect greatness from fanfiction because **a) **not everyone writing wishes to write to become a better writer **b) **the community supporting them is poo-poo and **c) **there is no baseline as to what good writing is. This final point I'm unsure what to make of it. Is it somewhat like beauty lies in the eye of the beholder?

Your first point: yeah, I get that. Not sure what I can say in response other than they should because writing is really cool and useful.

Your second point: I addressed this a bit earlier, but I don't disagree. We should, as both authors and readers, support each other on this site. Perhaps that means leaving a bit of constructive criticism on every story we read, or emphasizing and promoting stories we find to be good.

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**Stars to Ami **

_well I do have to say, great conversation starter haha. I do agree that a lot of fan fictions on this site are quite immature but there are some amazing ones too. A lot of pjo writers start out writing young, around 12/13, and if you follow someone for a while, you see that their writing and ideas do start becoming more mature. I personally think that those who write AUs are learning the most through writing fanfics because they have to do world building there but if you write in the pjo universe, there isn't much world building you have to do._

I disagree with you that AUs are better for building better writers. While an AU can be good for world-building, world-building is not the end-all-be-all of writing. In fact it's less than half the battle. Characters and dialogue drive stories, not the quality of the worlds in which these characters inhabit.

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**I want to thank you all for your responses! I have really enjoyed thinking through them and it has made my day (well, part of it. Today was, in all, one of my best days ever XD) seeing how many smart and well-thought-out responses I have received. **

**The one common theme I am realizing: as a whole community, we PJO authors need to get better at supporting one another. This is through both critique and praise. So my list of good fanfictions for the chapter:**

_Art of Observation_, by 3

_damned if I do damned if I don't_, by what a feeling

_Anaklusmos_, by Arcmelos

**Keep up the conversation! If there's anything else about Fanfiction y'all want me to tackle, just let me know. I enjoyed this conversation a lot! Additionally, please PM me any Beta or story-review requests.**

**Striving to provide Southern Hospitality the world over,**

**LoverBoi (yes, I'm a guy)**


	3. Essay II

**Okay, so I have a lot of reading and writing left for a very jam-packed day tomorrow, buttttt…**

**It's 11 on a Thursday night, I crawled off the erg in practice today in so much pain that now I'm numb, and I've had some coffee and food now so we're thriving. Y'all bouta get the bad end of my numb state, which is… drumroll please…**

**a rant on lust and sexuality in PJO world**

**yay**

**So, without further ado, leggo.**

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**UPDATE (1:15a.m.)**

**As you go into this work, understand that I am going to severely criticize Abrahamic ontological and normative views. This does not mean that I dislike Christianity or that I completely disagree with all of their prescriptions/morals, just that there are certain fundamental differences I have with the theological philosophy. Please do not get unjustly offended. They are solid, intellectual critiques, not mindless "church big bad" arguments.**

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I just read a comment from one of my classmates on lust, and how it was bad and leads to destruction and yadda yadda yadda. And I also finished reading a whole bunch of articles on whether or not Thukydides was a realist (in international relations, a realist believes that there is no greater power than nation-states and therefore the strongest nation-states get to do what they want and the weaker suffer what they must). Why do these two things relate to each other?

Why do these two things relate to each other?

Um…

Oh, yeah! So, basically, Thukydides believes that human nature is inherently selfish and greedy and lusty and that when the power of the state dissolves all that's left is chaos (check out the "Chaos is a ladder" _Game of Thrones_' speech — Thukydides' position is Varys' position). In this "state of nature" as Hobbes would later call it, humans act as lustfully as they truly are. And this will go on forever and ever and ever as long as human nature stays the same, which Thukydides believes it always will.

Remember that: humans are inherently selfish and lustful creatures.

Yet, we are so quick to disregard this belief as overly pessimistic, overtly evil. We, as a society, have been so ingrained with this Abrahamic, post-Platonic normative notion that lust is _bad_. Selfishness is _bad_. Greed is _bad_. Sins worthy of Hell.

The characters that we write easily conform to this idea too. After all, if we are not entirely conscious of our own biases and beliefs our characters will represent them flawlessly.

Okay, you might say, what's wrong with this? After all, haven't greed and lust been destructive forces? Greedy men start wars (it's almost always men) and lustful people are led so astray that we often let their "crimes of passion" off the hook. Shouldn't we rejoice that people are so influenced by ideals of self-righteous and morally good characters that they unconsciously reproduce them?

Well… yes and no. Yes, greed is not "good" as some people would like to argue, nor is unconstrained lust good, nor excessive selfishness. As a society, we want people to act altruistically from time-to-time (excessive altruism is bad, and I'll argue in a later essay what I believe is actually bad) in order to alleviate injustices.

But not while we're writing. Writing is a critical art form. It can display pure beauty as well as any painting. It can convey emotions better than any statue. It is the best medium because we have assigned so much meaning to words and sentences that simply present facts. The best writers can do this on multiple levels. Ever listened to a song over and over and realized that it meant more than just the basic story?

So, going back to Thukydides and Hobbes and Nietzsche and Schopenhauer and all my favorite sad boys, let's think about conflicting ideas of human nature.

Plato, Aristotle, and Locke, among others, believed that life was in of itself _good_ and that humans were inherently reasonable. "The state of Nature has a law of Nature to govern it," Locke believed. And, well, I don't agree. But I can understand why people do and respect their agreement. However, even Locke believed that people wanted to ensure their "life, liberty, and property" so they abandoned the state of nature only when there were people who transgressed against the state of nature and its law. In this view, it is good people who are normal and bad people who are abnormal (i.e. unnatural, Satanic, devilish, etc.).

Hobbes believed the opposite, along with Thukydides. People are inherently bad, and it is only the belief in a society, a _nomos_, that quells the bad. A state is not a luxury but a _necessity_ to stop bad actions from occurring. When the state loses its power we revert back to the state of nature.

Enough political philosophy. Basic idea: Abrahamic/Lockian/Platonic philosophy believes humans are inherently good and that evil is external from human nature; Hobbesian/Thukydidian/Realist philosophy believes that humans are inherently bad but some people are better at keeping the bad parts at bay.

Ugh I'm sorry I keep getting so off-topic. These are rants, really. Back to lust.

Lust is, in the former view, an external bad that must be resisted. Thus in many, many fanfictions lust is not mentioned at all. There's no longing for any physical features, only for vague notions of romance and personality.

Cute, but unrealistic.

People have sexual organs. *audience gasps*

I know, scary. (sarcasm intensifies)

In the latter view, lust becomes something that is internal and _human_. It becomes okay to feel reasonable amounts of lust, i.e. a character wants to touch the boobs/butt/vagina/penis/abs/legs/whatever of another character that they find attractive.

And doesn't that feel just so much more realistic? Look me in the eyes (or respond in the comments) and truthfully tell me that you have never felt any sexual attraction to anyone?

→ side note, asexuality is a perfectly normal sexuality to have. No one is saying here that you _have _to have sexual attraction towards anyone. All I'm saying it's okay _to_ have them as well.

Writing becomes better the closer it is to realism. It hits home closer. It's why so many people loved _Game of Thrones_, _Mad Men, Breaking Bad_, _the Sopranos_, etc. At their best, those were great TV shows about how people were pulled in the direction of their most human and base desires. It's even why _Harry Potter _and _PJO_ have achieved such longevity in my heart, and many others' too. Though I harped on Uncle Rick for not writing realistically enough, user **te amour **pointed out to me in her response to my first chapter that _PJO _was actually very complex for the audience it was meant to have. The characters aren't completely black-and-white (Percy in Tartarus was… amazing; Harry in _Order of the Phoenix_? Angst is so good when well done).

But one of the major things that separates _HP_ and _PJO _from the aforementioned TV shows is more "adult" themes such as lust and greed. Truthfully, it's what separates good fanfictions from great ones too. I remember reading one fic (I forgot the title and author, sorry!) recently, about a soulmate!AU (generally not a fan) where everyone has the initials of their friends/acquaintances/soulmates in different colors all over their body. Annabeth's initially a bitch then Percy's a bitch and… gods it was so good. But what separated it from other fics was the _casual_ presence of lust. Percy is distracted by Drew Tanaka's breasts, thinks he's in love with the pretty popular girl, Drew is jealous of Annabeth for being more popular even with smaller breasts. Casual references from throughout the whole story just gave it that added air of realism that made me love it even more.

→ found the story: _in a storm in my best dress (fearless)_, by herecomesthepun

I think the rant about political philosophy might feel out of place if I don't address it one more time. It was a bit excessive, but I sorta needed that for my classes too so thanks for hearing me out on that one. It'll really help my essays.

If we embrace the view that "sins" are external things that need to be quashed and smothered into oblivion, we will write characters that lack dimension and internal struggle. However, if we embrace the view that some of the more negative, lawless aspects of our humanity are, well, _human_, then we can create unique characters that feel more realistic because they deal with the same internal struggles we all deal with.

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**Let's keep the conversation going.**

**Striving to provide Southern Hospitality the world over,**

**LoverBoi (yes, I'm a guy)**


	4. te amour's response to Essay I

**My conversation, over PM, with user te amour, was so good I had to publish it. Go check out their fics please!**

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**te amour:**

Yes, I can see that you read classics. You know them and write very historical fanfiction. But regardless of your knowledge of the works of Homer and Hesiod, etc., that was a convoluted introduction and unnecessary. Certainly not ideal for starting a conversation, which seems a little hypocritical, as you go on to criticize your old favorites for being 'convoluted'.

But onto your main argument. You want less happy endings, which to me sounds very odd as you imply that tragedies are more mature ('WRITE MATURE FANFICTIONS!'). But just as thesauruses can't make good sentences, something as surface as a sad ending can't make a good story. Anyone can write a sad ending where Percy dies. That in itself doesn't make a good story.

Of course, I don't think that's all of what you meant. Next you go on to discuss reasons why the fandom is 'immature', and I would to some extent agree. Certainly many of the stories are immature and abandoned after days, even hours.

But factoring in how Riordan's stories are for pre-teen/YA audiences, it should come as no surprise that this happens. I think your point that many who read PJO earlier on have moved on is true - that was perhaps the most valid point you made. As Riordan continues to expand his mythological/fantasy universe the people who are caught up are young just as we were when we read PJO.

And, as high-achieving as you may be, there are many who are just around average who can't totally comprehend or juggle all these things which you listed which make a good story. Around 12, 13 is hardly a time to be pushing for incredible quality - rather, it is a time to be developing interest in writing. While it may irritate you, anger you, etc., it is how things are and telling them to write better won't make anything better.

Now let's talk about your references to the classics and the validity of your argument in relation to them.

You talk for most of this 'essay' about what the ancient myths suggest/reveal about the Greeks' interpretation of the gods and heroes - that gods are vengeful, heroes are always tragic, etc. - but I largely fail to see how this relates to your argument. If my inference is correct you used these classics as an argument for how the 'tragic hero' theme should be explored because it is the way in the myths, which you then elaborate and move on to overall mature writing. You compared Riordan's portrayal to ancient writing (which is a strange comparison to make in itself...)

First of all, the interpretation that Riordan's gods are just 'powerful humans' is reductive. The gods in PJO each represent some extremity of the human psyche - paranoia, lust, bloodlust, radical feminism, jealousy, to name a few. They are not simply 'human' but rather embody humanity's extremes. As Western Civilization moves and evolves in its views and values, so do the gods (this is canon Riordanverse lore), as they shift their appearance and personality based on how people interpret them and their domains.

Secondly, a comparison between Riordanverse and old myths is hardly appropriate. PJO has its charm because it is a brilliant amalgamation of myths and legends with the modern world. The values of now are hardly Greek...and a significant portion of people do not, in fact, think their lives 'suck'. This is why the tragic hero trope is quickly fading - as health, infrastructure, overall living quality improves, the optimism is reflected in literature.

Besides, Riordan's writing may not be as filled with symbolism and motifs and messages like The Great Gatsby or some other modern classic, but there isn't a lack of them, especially for a YA novel. For example, the Empire State Building is the epitome of capitalism, and the gods sit above it, looking down as mortals worship and keep alive the flame of the West and indulging in countless lovers before disappearing and leaving behind irreversible consequences (i.e. children)...Riordan is critical of capitalism and those who sit in positions of power and abuse that power for their own gain, acting with callous indifference, not caring about the consequences because they are powerful enough to ignore them. To say that his stories are greatly lacking in this department would be quite a bold point to make. So by saying that 'Uncle Rick' might want to write more adult stories with deeper messages is not giving credit to the surprising complexity PJO has.

Lastly, a minor point, but your examples proved very little about what you were trying to say. You had evidence, analyzed it, but failed to relate them to the argument at hand.

P.S. I checked out your community of good works and mostly agree, but that is a rather small list. There are definitely many more. And if you are so scathingly critical about the state of the fandom, would you say all of the stories in your 'Favorites' list are not part of the wider mediocrity? I don't think anyone can say that.

**LoverBoi:**

You have no clue how happy getting this PM made me! Not to characterize myself as a provocateur, but your reaction was definitely the type of reaction I was hoping to get out of this essay. I love your passion. I would also like to say that this essay was meant to be a bit extreme. I agree with many of your counterarguments, but I wanted to inject this conversation into the community loudly. Anyways, on to your arguments.

So, yeah, the essay really wasn't that good. If I was turning this in to my writing prof, I would have edited five to ten more times. Which I think only serves to prove a point that we both agree on, that fanfiction does not receive the best of our own writing. And your final point about my examples not proving what I had to say is not at all minor, but in fact a major point that I'm taking into consideration. What was the Classical background supposed to accomplish? Not much, perhaps, other than to show the difference between the reference material and the source material.

While I understand what you are saying that Riordan's gods embody human extremes and are not just all-powerful humans. A bit reductive, yes. But not entirely. The Gods of the actual Greek myths (when you go back and read the works) are very unlike Riordan's gods. They are not just human extremes of their domains. Many of their domains are murky or too varied to be such things; many of the "gods" are just personifications of emotions. The Gods of the actual Greek myths are odd and since there is no "Bible" of ancient Greek mythology, we are left with a patchwork of archaeology and literary fragments. I have yet to truly pin down the ancient Greek gods, and I doubt I ever will. Uncle Rick chose to make his gods more modern and animated than the ancients because tastes have changed. As you said, the world isn't tragic anymore, and people can live happily for a long time.

My hortation to fanfiction writers was not so much to write more tragedies but to try applying heavier themes, such as the pain of living, in a more nuanced way. My essay, as you pointed out, was probably a little too convoluted for that.

But to your point about whether or not 12-13 is the time to push for quality writing. I don't think that it can't be, but nor do I think it *must* be. Anyone can write well at any point in their life, regardless of age. I'm not (I think it's fair to call it an attack even though I don't mean to be that harsh) attacking 12-13 year old's for writing poorly. I love the fact that they are writing at all. I'm upset with the older generation who is not trying to advance their writing any more. Many writers seem to have hit a wall and have failed to evolve at all. My point with the classics was to try imitating Classical literature, or any other type of literature, in order to move past walls.

And, finally, to your issue that I do not give Uncle Rick enough credit — I do not want him to write adult stories. The PJO series was amazing and pretty complex. I was simply pointing out that the source material here is YA. That doesn't mean our work has to be YA.

Also, my community was started a few days ago and is not exhaustive yet. If you have any suggestions, let me know. And my favorites list? I'm sorry if you went there. It's an embarrassing mess.

\- Thank you so much, this really made my day

**LoverBoi:**

Also, if I were to publish another chapter with reactions from reviews and PMs, would you be okay with me publishing your critique?

**te amour:**

Sure, I don't mind.

Imitating classic literature (the kind you mentioned, the ancient ones) would, I think, be hardly conducive to modern standards of writing. We're better off reading modern classics like Fitzgerald's works (even that is a little old) or even contemporary series like The Hunger Games. I think you would agree with me when I say Suzanne Collins has quite a nuanced view on things...

On your 'older generation' point - not everyone can be a brilliant author. I read many stories on here. Some who claim to be in college write very poorly. It's just the average, it's not high, otherwise we would have Riordans and Rowlings popping out everywhere. It's not that they won't advance their writing, it's that they really can't. Some just have a ceiling which is just average. And that's ok.

Next, to the younger ones - same point really. At this time most can only write so well. And writing is not necessarily a passion, only a hobby. Can't expect so much out of everyone, or even a small fraction of everyone, because those who can write well and those who want to write? Very small intersection there.

We don't have to write YA - sure, but with the source material being entirely YA and the demographic, it was always going to be YA or even more juvenile. You won't find many deep, dark works here...and as I said, and you seem to agree, YA can be complex.

I suppose my point is that your expectations are unrealistic.

Lastly, recommendations...Gambit's Refrain, by 'paradoxed'. Undoubtedly my favorite on here, and a terrific portrayal of two struggling spirits finding something in each other and moving on in more ways than one. A deep exploration of immortality's burdens.

'Defiance' is also quite nice and unique. Doesn't follow cliches and yet remains authentic.

I have to say, I can't remember many. A lot are abandoned. I'll find some more when I have time to go through my list.

I like to think my stories are good, but none of them have enough literal content to truly judge. Maybe Sea Girl - The Original, but that was a rather juvenile piece from years ago which I reuploaded recently.


	5. Cliches

**RPHoeben asked for a list of cliches. So, instead of writing my final paper or another section of ΚΑΤΑΡΧΗΣ, I decided to do this instead because I'm responsible. (note the sarcasm)**

* * *

_**High School:**_

Ugh… don't even get me started on this one. It's just so… Mean Girls-centric. And Mean Girls is so… 2000. People don't act like that anymore. They just don't. I think so much of these High School fics are written by people about to enter High School. Middle School is the new High School.

Also, can we please have some technology in High School AUs? Like Instagram, Facebook, Snapchat, etc. Let's add some realism. None of this "who is popular" bullshit, none of this "she's the cheerleader and the school slut" (fuck slut-shaming, can we please, please let this go? People can fuck if they want to). Many times cheerleaders are not the most popular people in school. It's often the other athletes. Also, football players are also not always super popular, but never is a swimmer popular. We're just not.

\- Focused, by CantaloupeDuck

_Side note on sports:_

**Swimming:** ugh where do I start on this? So, most good swimmers are doing doubles (or triples) meaning that they have two practices of usually two-hours a day. During those practices, they do not swim outright for hours, but have sets. Actually, none of this stuff is necessary, but just keep in mind that swimming is a seriously demanding sport. If Percy is serious about swimming he is not eating junk food all the time (nutrition is key), he is tired all the time, and he's extremely fit. Check out the actual events that people swim, please. Swim races are not round-robbins where each winner faces another person. They're divided into heats where the top people are in the top heat and they swim once. Oh, and good swim schools do not consist of NYU. If Percy is a really good swimmer like we are told in most High School fanfictions, he's going to want to go to UT Austin, Cal Berkley, Stanford, Florida.

**Rowing:** people have been sleeping on this as a serious sport for Percy to do. I think he'd love crew more than swimming since he gets to be on actual water. So if you want to do crew, just hit me up for details if you need them.

_**Chaos/Betrayal:**_

These are just… not grounded in reality. Like, betrayals? And a gendered Chaos? A humanoid Chaos? Give me a break, please. If you want to do a good Chaos story, make the betrayal follow the idea that if one gets too close to the Gods, the gods strike them down (see chapter 1).

\- Heroes and Ghosts, by LostHeroGuide

And please make Chaos similar to Hermaeus Mora in Skyrim. An amorphous blob, with no human form. I know, I know, we like to imagine gods as humans. Whether it's the Abrahamic god or the Hellenic Gods, we like to imagine them as similar to us. But Chaos should not be portrayed as a humanoid. It's not only unimaginative but also skimps on a serious chance to make a cool statement on theology.

_**Guardian of the Hunt:**_

So there's a lot of shitty Percabeth out there, which are poorly written and lack any substantive theme. And then there's Pertemis, which is overly inundated with authors cramming theme and angst and "darkness" down your throat. It's such a poorly done pairing that I have come to nearly hate it. It starts off with a base of misogyny vs. misandry and just boo. Nothing in most of these stories is as complex as the author thinks, nothing is subtle, everything is just crammed down your throat, along with a highly unrealistic pairing and circumstance.

So how do you do it right? Make Percy an ancient god. Simple. Solves so many difficulties that the canon throws in the way of Pertemis (and Perzoe). Anaklusmos14 has done a really good job of this, especially his most recent story.

\- Exiled, by Anaklusmos14

_**OCs:**_

You want to write your own character in Riordan-verse. Use his world to learn how to write characters.

I'm not entirely against this. People should use other worlds to help them focus solely on characters. But their multidimensional characters are not always great. Why?

There are three types of basic "complex" characters:

_the emo:_ the character has a troubled family past and struggles to get out of their own head and is super shy and has anxiety and doesn't think they're good at anything but surprise! they actually are super good at everything!

_the lone rogue:_ the character has a troubled past and keeps to themselves but is super good at being sneaky and hunting and just wants to be happy but can't because they've got a troubled past but it's okay because they're Assassins too

_the (slightly-not) Mary Sue:_ the character has a troubled family life (getting a theme?) but hides it and is super nice and smart and great with a sword (or an axe! Wouldn't that be cool?) but inside has a great internal struggle because really they're sad

Ugh. Boring. Why? Because the internal conflicts are simple. "Am I bad or am I good? Am I social or shy?" Look, I get it. Not everyone is writing like Hemingway. But ugh those stupid character types make me want to barf. For a more in-depth analysis, check out CosmonautVarietyHour's videos on the Clone Wars and Rebels. He does a good job characterizing bad character cliches.

Also, if you are writing an OC story don't start out to make it a series, especially when it has 20k words per book. Just write. And think about your writing.

And for the love of the gods, can we please go past a locket/necklace/jewelry as a symbol of love?! So materialistic.

_**Another Adventure:**_

Percy and the Seven need to save the world one more time! To do so they need to meet/save this super powerful, hitherto unknown demigod(dess) and/or acquire this obscure (but suddenly important!) MacGuffin. Yawn.

I don't know what to say about these stories. Good for first time writers, but let's move on. Quickly.

* * *

**That's all folks. If there are any other cliches you want to know my thoughts on, just tell me. Imma go fail my classes.**

**Striving to provide Southern Hospitality the world over,**

**LoverBoi (yes, I'm a guy)**


	6. Essay III: Annabeth Chase

Oh Annabeth… my darling, what have they done to you?

And by they, I mean the PJO fandom!

They have murdered you a thousand times over with your betrayals of your beloved, with your slutty tendencies to abscond with whatever son of Zeus is not named Jason, with your endlessly bitchy comments!

Okay, maybe not the bitchy comments. And it wasn't really the PJO fandom that killed you.

So who did?

Well, let's start off with why people don't like Annabeth:

She's too perfect: by the time _HOO _rolls around (or before, pick your poison) Annabeth has shed her hubris and becoming a goddess more or less

She's too bossy: Annabeth is a know-it-all who is too smart and perfect for her own good

She's a bitch: do you remember how she treated Rachel in _BotL_? Horrid!

She's too prideful: when was the last time Annabeth ever admitted a mistake? You'd think it was her fatal flaw or something to be this prideful

Those are the basic arguments, gathered from around the fandom, as to why Annabeth is bad. She's far from the most hated PJO character, but I'd say she's one of the most controversial. But why? Is she a Mary Sue or a bitch? Is she closed off or overly-ambitious? Is she too smart or not smart enough?

If you paused there, that's okay. Not smart enough? Isn't half the reason people dislike her because of her officious, know-it-all tendencies? Yes, yes it is. Therefore, it was sort of a shock coming to the realization that Annabeth Chase was a not-so-intelligent character. Let's examine why.

What does smart or intelligent mean? Some would argue that it is a strong memory, the ability to spew facts at random. I'm going to say no. That's not smart, that's having a strong memory. Maybe even photogenic memory. Perhaps Annabeth does have that. After all, her superpower in PJO is facts. She knows more about the mythological world than Percy (but less than just about anyone who has read Edith Hamilton's Mythology or Hesiod or Ovid or anyone who knew what Rome was). That is her sole reason for existing in _TLT_. Now, she does get a character arc — realizing she can rely on people other than herself, like Percy and her dad — and she's an interesting character for Percy to interact with (I don't give a shit if she was mean to Percy at first. Do you know how many of my friends went from being my "enemies" first? Or the other way around? Especially in _middle school_? Give me a break.).

Annabeth is not smart, she simply knows facts (aka Hermione 2.0). But she is not supposed to be Hermione 2.0 (for the record Hermione grows out of this but she starts off like it). She is a daughter of Athena, the goddess of _WISDOM AND CRAFTS AND STRATEGY_. Annabeth is not just book-smart, she's street-smart too. Her intelligence is not given to her from books and it should not manifest itself in facts. It comes from her godly brain, which should manifest itself in an uncanny ability to solve puzzles which she has no information about beforehand.

Taking _TLT _and _TLH_ as examples, let's consider the Waterpark scene and the Clovis scene, respectively. In _TLT_, after telling Percy what Hephaestus does to Aphrodite and Ares, she walks into the trap. It takes her till seeing the letter Η before she realizes what's going on. That's some normie human tier bullcrap right there. If we are to believe Annabeth is the daughter of Athena, then why is she no smarter than I was in sixth-grade?

→ side note, this is what pisses me off about Annabeth being a struggling student in HS/College fics. I guess in an AU you can tone down her intelligence but a solid base of her personality is built off of her intelligence. She may have trouble reading and writing but her baseline intelligence is off-the-charts.

In _TLH_, Annabeth goes to Clovis for help with Jason, and immediately gets stumped as to what the hell Rome was and what it stood for and what Roman gods were and how they were different than the Greek ones. I mean this was stuff I learned in my HS Latin class. Am I supposed to believe that Annabeth Chase, as immersed in the Greek world and as smart as we are told she is, could not figure that shit out? That it took her the _entire _book to realize Jason was Roman?

On top of that, think about the two primary plots in both series — defeating Kronos and defeating Gaia. Now think about Annabeth's role in both events. What did she have to offer? Situational knowledge, at most. Annabeth Chase, the smartest demigod in her generation, was stumped by two wars that consisted of, at maximum, three or four battles. Why was it so difficult for her to have a larger impact?

Because plot demanded she didn't. After all, if Annabeth was as smart as we were told, then she could have easily devised a plan that would have been proactive against Kronos and Gaia. Their plans aren't overly complex. Kronos' was simple: recruit enough demigods to his cause that he would rise. They knew that by what, the second book (correct me if I'm wrong)? Gaia's plan was a bit more complex, but not so complex that a mind as great as Annabeth's (we are told) would be able to have difficulty devising a counter-plan. But Annabeth is unable to devise any master plan to combat either Gaia or Kronos.

And therein lies our issue. Annabeth Chase is only as smart as the plot needs her to be, and no smarter. She is constrained by the simplistic plot of Rick's writing and comes off not as a genius-level intelligence with maybe too much pride but fierce passion (i.e. _the Imitation Game_) but as (depending on the viewer) either a bratty-know-it-all or a Mary Sue with too much pride.

Why, though, would adding to her intelligence fix these issues? I don't think they would fix the Mary Sue issue, since it would require more depth to her motives and wants and reasonings (she's a shallow character after book 1, admit it) to counterbalance her Batman-level intelligence. But it would fix the know-it-all issue in that she would be useful for more than just telling Percy he's an idiot.

Trust me, I love Annabeth to death. She is the character I relate most to, the character that had the most impact on my own development as a person. She's not a bad idea for a character, but she sort of fails to live up to expectations. I read somewhere that she's not relatable because she's not angsty or lazy. I just sort of laughed. Yeah, most of us are lazy. But that's not Annabeth Chase, that's not the person she represents. She's the driven one, that one friend who will get a week's worth of work done in a night because they have that level of motivation. Maybe you can't relate to that. Fine. But for those of us who do relate to her because of her drive and intelligence, Rick failed us too, but not making her _enough_ of those things. He walked a fine line between her being a normal teenager, like Percy, and one of those crazy-driven organizational freaks (you know who I'm talking about) who color-codes everything and is on top of their game. And Annabeth Chase is not a teenager who will sit in front of the TV all day watching love movies or who is nice to everyone she meets. She's someone who has trouble trusting and gets caught up by the speed of her own thoughts. She can out think anyone and can do anything she puts her mind to. Rick forgot to make her who she could be, in my opinion. He did a very good job with characters like Rachel, but Annabeth? She was too much for him, I think.

So when you write Annabeth next, do yourself a favor and write her smarter. Try it.


End file.
